'Scooter' has Questions- I Have Answers
Scooter wrote:
Admin,
I am surprised by your reply to Maggie. Why are you willing to forego voting for Sherri Vogt simply because of the Breen proposal? Don't you think the Breen Proposal minor in comparison to the other issues at stake?
What is it that you hold so dearly about the Academy that would make it a primary thrust in your support against Sherri Vogt….at the cost of electing Mike Alberts who has NONE of your interests at heart…unless you are a builder or a farmer. It seems like a high price to pay for the Academy. Making a single minor issue such as the Breen proposal the stalwarth decision making point while willing to sacrifice the other more important issues simply does not make sense.
Further, and you might not like this, I want to make a case in support of Joe Breen. At the expense of differences in opinion on educational funding (minor issue), Joe Breen, who truly has the brains, the will, the experience, and the chutzpah to make a difference in overcoming the Old Gaurd special interests (a major issue) that Maggie and others are now all crying about, lost his position as DTC chair and the P&Z board because of the same special interest tactics that the Old Gaurd is adept at playing. I find this so ironically amusing.
It was a huge mistake to make education the focal point of the DTC and let it divide the party. Losing Joe Breen on P&Z was a greater loss for the town than preventing his Academy proposal from moving forward. So both sides are guilty and once again the prevalence of special interests, who's fear mongering serves to meet their own minor needs, deny the rest of us a government that protects all else we hold dear.
So please don't fall into the trap of not voting for someone because of a minor issue when what you risk is losing all the major ones.
Hello Scooter,
You seem to have quite a lot of assumption as to my motivations, thoughts and experiences without knowing about actual events that may influence me in whom/whatever I may or may not support going forward, so, I will take this opportunity to fill you in on some history here. This is also going to create some questions for you and I would appreciate the courtesy of response-
Issue one.
Actually, there is nothing I “…hold so dearly about the Academy…”, nor did I say it was the “primary thrust in my support against Sherri Vogt”, you did. If you know the entire history here as I do first hand, I would also strongly disagree with you that the Breen proposal is either a single or minor issue. Have you followed this blog for some time? If not, I invite you to go back to the beginning of the archives and begin reading.
Issue two.
You can make the case for Joe Breen all you’d like. There was a time when I did the same or are you not aware of this? Certainly a bright fellow with the will- you can call it chutzpah, I call it something else; ‘experience’ I take issue with considering what I know. Also, I take issue that “educational funding” is a minor issue in this town when it accounts for roughly 80% of the spending. Are you still reading the archives?
In the final analysis, it is my opinion that he overcame nothing; moreover, it was his complete lack of strategy and foresight that has put us right where we are today- right back where we were 20 years ago. Why would this be do you think? Spite? Frustration? Arrogance? Some combination of all?
He did not “lose” his position as the chair of the DTC. He resigned. Not a wonder after the trouncing at the polls of the high quality candidates he/they (the old DTC) put forth. So, what choices did we actually have in the last election? It was also not lost on me that he dragged Margie down with him with the last minute inclusion of her in the DTC Villager ad prior to the election. One of the handful of honest people we’ve had in politics here as long as I can remember.
As to your comments about special interest tactics of the “Old Guard” that you mentioned you find “ironically amusing”, I don’t find them amusing at all. I still vividly recall watching Dexter Young cleaning his fingernails in front of the crowd on the dais at the “debate” held at the Academy commons and hearing Fred Rich speak, I don’t know which was worse. It made me want to go home and call the moving van …but I made a promise to my children that they would grow up and go to school in one place (as my father was unwilling to do for me) because I thought it important for them. Look how well that has worked out.
As you say, it was a huge mistake to make education the focal point of the DTC and let it divide the party, but it goes deeper than that; it had nothing to do with the party or education. It was probably the biggest strategic blunder I have ever seen at the local level. I guess it’s ok with you that we have and are still paying for this folly. Keep reading those archives.
Did you read anywhere that I was voting for Mike? Having said that, I cannot vote for Ms.Vogt either because on two separate occasions she unnecessarily lied to my face in addition to the aforementioned issue and “sorry” just doesn’t cut it. Mr. Breen, Mr. Loftus and others also fall into this category as well and supposedly we were on the same side.
I have more, do you want to continue? How about Tony Gugliemo’s conflict of interest with the town and the school system?
The current sitting regime in this town has some very serious problems on its hands that are being handled poorly as usual. It is my belief that they won’t survive them in a politically expedient way, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
We will all be denied a government that protects all we hold dear until people of integrity step forward and are willing to do what is right even at their own expense. That is the only trap I see.
Are you willing to put your name on your beliefs?
Craig Powers
PS- Considering the DTC flyer that was distributed prior to the election and the vision it represented, among other issues, Mr. Breen not being on P&Z is not a loss in my opinion.
Admin,
I am surprised by your reply to Maggie. Why are you willing to forego voting for Sherri Vogt simply because of the Breen proposal? Don't you think the Breen Proposal minor in comparison to the other issues at stake?
What is it that you hold so dearly about the Academy that would make it a primary thrust in your support against Sherri Vogt….at the cost of electing Mike Alberts who has NONE of your interests at heart…unless you are a builder or a farmer. It seems like a high price to pay for the Academy. Making a single minor issue such as the Breen proposal the stalwarth decision making point while willing to sacrifice the other more important issues simply does not make sense.
Further, and you might not like this, I want to make a case in support of Joe Breen. At the expense of differences in opinion on educational funding (minor issue), Joe Breen, who truly has the brains, the will, the experience, and the chutzpah to make a difference in overcoming the Old Gaurd special interests (a major issue) that Maggie and others are now all crying about, lost his position as DTC chair and the P&Z board because of the same special interest tactics that the Old Gaurd is adept at playing. I find this so ironically amusing.
It was a huge mistake to make education the focal point of the DTC and let it divide the party. Losing Joe Breen on P&Z was a greater loss for the town than preventing his Academy proposal from moving forward. So both sides are guilty and once again the prevalence of special interests, who's fear mongering serves to meet their own minor needs, deny the rest of us a government that protects all else we hold dear.
So please don't fall into the trap of not voting for someone because of a minor issue when what you risk is losing all the major ones.
Hello Scooter,
You seem to have quite a lot of assumption as to my motivations, thoughts and experiences without knowing about actual events that may influence me in whom/whatever I may or may not support going forward, so, I will take this opportunity to fill you in on some history here. This is also going to create some questions for you and I would appreciate the courtesy of response-
Issue one.
Actually, there is nothing I “…hold so dearly about the Academy…”, nor did I say it was the “primary thrust in my support against Sherri Vogt”, you did. If you know the entire history here as I do first hand, I would also strongly disagree with you that the Breen proposal is either a single or minor issue. Have you followed this blog for some time? If not, I invite you to go back to the beginning of the archives and begin reading.
Issue two.
You can make the case for Joe Breen all you’d like. There was a time when I did the same or are you not aware of this? Certainly a bright fellow with the will- you can call it chutzpah, I call it something else; ‘experience’ I take issue with considering what I know. Also, I take issue that “educational funding” is a minor issue in this town when it accounts for roughly 80% of the spending. Are you still reading the archives?
In the final analysis, it is my opinion that he overcame nothing; moreover, it was his complete lack of strategy and foresight that has put us right where we are today- right back where we were 20 years ago. Why would this be do you think? Spite? Frustration? Arrogance? Some combination of all?
He did not “lose” his position as the chair of the DTC. He resigned. Not a wonder after the trouncing at the polls of the high quality candidates he/they (the old DTC) put forth. So, what choices did we actually have in the last election? It was also not lost on me that he dragged Margie down with him with the last minute inclusion of her in the DTC Villager ad prior to the election. One of the handful of honest people we’ve had in politics here as long as I can remember.
As to your comments about special interest tactics of the “Old Guard” that you mentioned you find “ironically amusing”, I don’t find them amusing at all. I still vividly recall watching Dexter Young cleaning his fingernails in front of the crowd on the dais at the “debate” held at the Academy commons and hearing Fred Rich speak, I don’t know which was worse. It made me want to go home and call the moving van …but I made a promise to my children that they would grow up and go to school in one place (as my father was unwilling to do for me) because I thought it important for them. Look how well that has worked out.
As you say, it was a huge mistake to make education the focal point of the DTC and let it divide the party, but it goes deeper than that; it had nothing to do with the party or education. It was probably the biggest strategic blunder I have ever seen at the local level. I guess it’s ok with you that we have and are still paying for this folly. Keep reading those archives.
Did you read anywhere that I was voting for Mike? Having said that, I cannot vote for Ms.Vogt either because on two separate occasions she unnecessarily lied to my face in addition to the aforementioned issue and “sorry” just doesn’t cut it. Mr. Breen, Mr. Loftus and others also fall into this category as well and supposedly we were on the same side.
I have more, do you want to continue? How about Tony Gugliemo’s conflict of interest with the town and the school system?
The current sitting regime in this town has some very serious problems on its hands that are being handled poorly as usual. It is my belief that they won’t survive them in a politically expedient way, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
We will all be denied a government that protects all we hold dear until people of integrity step forward and are willing to do what is right even at their own expense. That is the only trap I see.
Are you willing to put your name on your beliefs?
Craig Powers
PS- Considering the DTC flyer that was distributed prior to the election and the vision it represented, among other issues, Mr. Breen not being on P&Z is not a loss in my opinion.
First, let me say that I agree with you more than I disagree with you. This is more than what should be expected from any relationship.
Second, if I didn't value your opinion I wouldn't be on your website and I wouldn't engage in debate.
Third, I don't pretend to understand your motivations other than you wish to do the right thing.
Fourth, you must take the good with the bad. I am willing to create a discussion on this blogsite, but I am not willing to forego my anonymity. That shouldn't take away from the points I am trying to make. Which brings me now to my point again, or at least to clarify it because you seemingly are provoked by my comments which did not have the intention of angering, but rather of provoke meaningful consideration. Which it has. Besides I am an extremely shy person and do not wish to defend myself in public. Sorry.
Point by point on your issues:
1. I do think that the Breen proposal is/was a single issue. Maybe not minor at the time as I too was provoked by it. But its done for now and a moot point in a discussion on moving forward.
2. Excellent point. The Ed. budget is 80% of our tax payer funded budget and we should never lose sight of that and we should never lighten our diligence in seeing that it remains honest,fair and transparent. But isn't it fair to say, "Mission Accomplished" already. The budget was cut, spending diminished to loweest 5% in Ct., the BOE is on their toes, BOE meetings bring a considerably moe conservative tone, the message sent by the town clear, watchdogs in place.
3. I am not going to defend Joe Breen anymore than I have already. I don't know him well enough but do respect him on his stand against Old Gaurd politics and Planning/Zoning. I agreed with you that it was a gross mistake that the DTC made education their focal interest on their platform when clearly they were divided on the issue. I know little else about it, but for me, that is all I need to know.
4. I agree we have a little problem. Mike Alberts vs. Sherry Vogt. All I was suggesting, when the choices are limited, is that sometimes one has to take the good with the bad (choose your poison), but to please consider what is at stake and do give minor moot issues greater weight than the more important ones.
5. You misunderstood me. What I find ironically amusing is when one special interest groups derides the other for the very same tactics that both use.
6. I'm laughing out loud right now on your Dexter Young comments and the paragraph that followed. I remember watching him and thinking to myself, "dear lord... give me the grace to keep my mouth shut." I too share your sacrifice.
7. I am watching McCain's platform banner which states, "Country First". It has meaning to me. It resonates with me. I want our town government to have the same mantra and that they truly stand behind it. "Town First". Not special interests. Can we agree on that?
On point #4, I meant "do NOT give minor moot issues more weight than the more important ones.
Scooter,
As you probably know, I appreciate and welcome the debate as it is the only way to get anything done. I created this website (and the Coalition site) in the hope that the masses of Woodstock would bother to do their homework and understand what is going on around them.
You mistake anger for disgust and maybe it’s just the way it comes out but I am well beyond anger and based upon how I look at strategy in the bigger picture, albeit disgusting, I too find all of it somewhat amusing.
I do not deny you your anonymity and you need not be sorry, it is simply my way of encouraging you to come out and take a stand.
Counter to your points on the issues:
1. There is a much larger view that I think you miss here. The preponderance of the evidence on this subject clearly shows that the Breen Proposal was NOT a single issue and is/was tied to many and goes back longer than you may realize.
I would refer you to the library at the Coalition site (woodstockctcoalition.org)
-HERE- (bottom left) where you will find the documents that started the whole thing written by Doug Porter and Charlie Snow…then follow the escalation through time documented through the legal bills from Shipman (another bunch of strategic geniuses). In my opinion, this all has relevance to where we are going…what was the old history idiom?… You can’t know where you are going until you understand where you came from? Been a long time since elementary school, but I think you get the point…
2. You say “…remains honest, fair and transparent…”. You have to be kidding, right? And I absolutely love your reference to “Mission Accomplished”, it could not be more fitting. The next one really makes me giggle, PLAYBOOK, PLAYBOOK, PLAYBOOK- are you really buying this stuff?
“…the BOE is on their toes…”, etc. The BOE have their heads firmly in the sand as evidenced by their inability to ask relevant questions of their Superintendent…I will assume you have been to some of these meetings. So, in my opinion, it is either staged or they truly don’t have any idea what’s going on around them. We hear so much about the BOE’s collective intelligence, therefore, it makes me lean to the former. More remains to be seen. As to the watchdogs being in place, in my opinion this is just getting started in a meaningful way and I would encourage you to attend Dr. Fusco’s presentation…I’ll be looking for you.
3. I think you need to know more and Joe ‘Snuffy’ Breen seems more than capable of defending himself.
4. Disagree, big problem, not moot or minor. The limited choices are symptomatic of the much larger problems we face and a major reason why we are where we are as a town, state and country.
5. Agreed. Is it lost on you that the tactics here in the Woodstock blogosphere are similar in that Aljazeera accuses everyone they don’t agree with for doing exactly what they do? Propaganda at its finest.
6. I’m still laughing too…but it makes me want to cry as well.
7. You make my point well, and I agree. The larger issue and message that I’m trying to convey is that folks need to look past the rhetoric and dig to really understand the depth of the special interests. If they did I think the revolution would come sooner than later.
Thanks for taking the time.